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I read a very good book this week called Wittgenstein’s Poker. It talked about the philosophical divide between the language guys and the problem guys. Russell was Wittgenstein’s mentor early on and he was Popper’s idol also. It discussed the meeting between these men in the late 40s and how badly it went. Wittgenstein saw things as puzzles and the others as problems.
I think they both have errors in that everything was based on logic only. (Wittgenstein did smell the stench of ‘logic only’ though.) The Popper camp as well as the Russell camp thought that one needed to solve problems with logic, even if it could never be certain. An approximation was worth the risk for trial and error will sort out progress from failure.
Wittgenstein just could not go there.He, I think, felt that man could say nothing about these problems.
I agree with Wittgenstein more than Popper but I also think that Wittgenstein did ‘lop off parts’ of himself in that he viewed this all from a logical point of view. He tried to make a better logical language but found it impossible. But if you view yourself as one form with many attributes you realize that language has meaning way beyond pure logic. It actually may start in the language/nonemotional area but is fed wants and feelings constantly from other parts of your brain. One may try to lop off parts of oneself yet then it is easy to see that logic and language only take you so far.
Popper did not see this nor his followers. His view of trial and error on life seemed wonderful in an open society. Still such trial and error done in a nonexact logical (since an exact logical manner is most likely impossible) manner still leaves one open to errors humans cannot recover from. We often can’t see the error as we progress in solving our problems.
There are problems and puzzles and both approaches can be misleading in my opinion. There is meaning in life beyond measure, beyond logic. Wittgenstein saw this but his reaction seemed to be more of a doomed existence with little to say about it. Drury, Wittgenstein’s student and a Doctor, writes about it better than anyone. He brings us back to Plato and the soul which is more than likely simply an immeasurable form. I think he said what Wittgenstein felt but would not say….Popper did not see it…
If we truly have a soul that is beyond measure…it changes everything. Life is viewed from an entirely different point of view. Wittgenstein gave up on religion and Popper seemed to have rationality as a religion. I do not think either way is recommended.
If we have a soul then our lives no matter how doomed or trapped by illness, pain, or cultural catastrophe still may go on. Such hope makes one trudge on obeying our Creator as our only means of finding success yet finding not so much simply law but kindness towards each other as the way out of our mess. Socrates knew that something created him and he just had to hope it was for the good, despite life’s revolting issues…
Now we have a world searching for rationality but just finding meanness. We either want answers where there are none or perhaps wish to simply give up on existence. Both tragically have the same solution- don’t face the dread of your existence. Either try to solve it or simply ignore it. Instead it may be more helpful to face one’s earthly fate as something that can never be seen simply through our measuring eyes and ears and minds alone.
Neither language or science or any other gift can solve our issues. All are just incomplete tools that are gifts that we should use wisely. That is the issue. We must find wisdom through our hearts. The soul must make use of all our gifts to find meaning in things beyond logic and language.
That is why I like Socrates more than anyone. He saw this clearly…more than Plato more than Aristotle more than anyone. Marx and Hegel never saw this. (Neither did Neitzche or however you spell his name- yes it may seem that God is dead but perhaps it becomes true because that is how we want it to be- free finally from the Creator of this worldly mess. Philosophy and religion have perhaps been mishandled in a double minded way as Neitzche saw but his solution only brought true madness )
Socrates was willing to take that leap beyond the world’s sadness and he didn’t let the world make him either sad, mad or intellectually empty. He understood that it is goodness that matters not just pure intellect , a mind that ignores its feelings………. or pure emotion with an ignorance of your other gifts that teach you to never just live life as a Bohemian. It seemed that Russell wanted it both ways- be logical during the day and then do whatever you damn well want to at the other times.(This is why Wittgenstein lost his respect for him- he was empty of a soul that guides the entirety of one’s existence.
There was a Rabbi named the Kotzker who lived in the 19th Century. He spent his last 20 years in solitude for he wondered why a Creator would cause his people so much hardship. He was upset … not that God was dead but absent….this upset him so … of interest is he foresaw the Holocaust. Is God absent because of Him or because of us? St Augustine was right…deep down we all dread meeting our Creator and facing judgement…so we either intellectualize it or ignore it…. but perhaps if we all just listen to what is asked of us, simply have faith in our be-ing and help others in their be-ing … if the birds do not get anxious why should we no matter what happens on this earth ….I too have to work at this very hard …as you can tell by my writing about it …. I too have that dread that the Kotzker has and wonder what I should do? Perhaps I too should just remain silent…..but I can’t just fill in the blank as Neitzche said …. to me God is not dead … he is all I have to hold on to … and my hope is my dread will be joy … for I believe in His Kindness even if He Himself has withdrawn it from us and our world … I will not let this world drain kindness out of me so easily… and I cannot be in solitude or silence about this…I understand the feelings of the Kotzker and Neitzche as well as the intellectualizations of Kant and Russell and even Einstein. I have no regard though for men such as Marx and Hegel..how they have deluded man…
Get the book it is wonderful. Stay safe in this hurricane season!
Your friend,
DrewI am a Christian by birth, by instruction, by wonder.(Such things also in some mysterious way makes me wonder even more about the G-d of the Jews and I question, somewhat frustratingly, why I am not required to have the same reverence for the Almighty, the One we can’t even name much less understand? ) Some things I can control, some I can’t. I know, not by study, that there truly is a God. The Trinity makes sense to me in that there is an unfathomable Oneness. It does not make sense to me to explain it to the point that I think I understand God and His Wisdom.
The Trinity is often better understood by children than by adults-simply something to wonder at. That Yahweh could send a Son is incomprehensible to every human. It is to be wondered at, not explained. His Holy Spirit is unquestionably felt by those who wish to feel it. I am not sure if it is felt by those who attempt to explain it. Explaining things tends to not isolate the higher cognitive faculties but to remove what Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and Moses asked of us- our hearts always pointed towards G-d, not towards ourselves which is a worship of idols in a way…
“11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.
19 This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. “
I think it is a mistake by Christians to think they think correctly (separate from the ability to love correctly) when perhaps they just think heartlessly and love wastingly…….instead of thinking in a way that one can posess goodness one needs to feel goodness in the heart before one can even fathom anything with the proper perspective… humans have a unity too which they refuse to usually consider…Sometimes people make a jump to something without seeing what they are jumping on. A neurophysiologist usually assumes that life is the brain…just a bunch of neuro-chemical-electrical reactions. A psychiatrist will say perhaps one has to control the id via the ego and superego. A philosopher will often just jump to the idea of a soul as if it is the same thing as as id or ego or sodium channel.
Simply stabs in the dark, declaring certainty where no certainty is found….
before one can consider the soul one must first decide what is the brain, the body, the mind, the self etc…
What do they mean? Are there any agreements of language?
If not everyone stays in the dark, though they see the light come through on their ideas….how such light is blinding!It is hard for me to speculate on many topics. It just goes against my training in neurology. It must make sense to me, must have some order or system, and if it cannot be systematized, in the proper way…..then I must stop my speculation.
Tomorrow morning I teach the residents how to do a neurological exam. It is a wonderful tool to localize pathology and lesions. It is methodical & mechanical …much as a car mechanic can find pathology. …. As the car mechanic, I can tell you where the problem is and how to deal with it….. but I can’t tell you where the energy comes from or what a gift it is to move freely or think freely…….that is why I actually hate to say I am a neurologist because it implies I have this great wisdom…when I am just a mechanic though a very good one…. how about an engineer?? what can he honestly say???
Where I earn my living is partly with my skill above but I also need to care about that patient and that problem and it is different for every pt I have seen though quite similar in style. The question always arises…when does close count? I think it counts in caring about everyone…that they are at least as confused as you are about life…
…the irony of life is the more you think you know the less you really know…the more you explain things…the deeper the perplexing issues become…the more sure you have found the answer the deeper into delusion you have gone
modern psychology is much like old philosophy with many levels or souls …. we have the intellect soul and the emotional soul and the athletic soul and the soul that desires physical bonding and the soul that contemplates etc etc
Such an approach bothers me…perhaps it shouldn’t but it does.
A modern scientist says aha that PET scan lights up in the so and so when you think about the word soul and it lights up in the so and so when you think about the word heart….they are separate
I must ask…. what makes those spots light up…what determines it so…simply the brain itself in some autoregulation……..if that is the answer,,,is there no concern? How can something cause itself to move without any 1st cause????
I cannot say what the soul is but I do think it is a unitary immaterial thing that somehow causes the brain to light up for memory for movement for love……we decide what we wish to light up…that is our free will …trapped in a body with various strengths and weaknesses…that is our prison….that is all I can say in a logical way about my soul…I think what I say does hold some logic, I hope
that is enough for me…..no scientist can debate what I say unless he simply believes that the brain moves itself…but I could then say perhaps it is not the brain but the tooth fairy…both solutions are illogical and only within one’s imagination
oh how people would be upset at me for that statement but can they really say what I say is not logical???? there must be causality…
logic to me is great in what we think are simple questions, not the ones we think are profound …yet perhaps the simplest question is the one most profound which goes against how we think
A few people told me my grand rounds upset them….and it should have …..it was meant to be upsetting. My inability to imagine life as stages of souls or intellects etc comes from my own experience and from what I think Socrates said. I am the same person I was as far back as I can remember….so are most of my friends …though our bodies have changed dramatically and not for the better …as all my cells have changed again not for the better…
…so what is it about me that cannot change, what is it about me that sets me in motion, what is it about me that in some ways feels so trapped by this body I have, that just seems to fail me in so many ways including my ability to truly know things….oh what dreams I had about life but they were just dreams ….. I live in reality with real limits yet if I feel something within me that does not change..that is where my comfort arises from and always will
I must believe in a God of kindness and of order and feel I am somehow created within that order…what happens to me at death is beyond me but if I believe in order and kindness and in my One true God…what do I have to fear? as Jesus’s words say why be anxious? easier said than done but I will try to keep my imperfect body from deceiving my soulDear Shawn
Thank you for letting me contribute a bit to this site. But I am not qualified in any manner to really talk about esoteric subjects. I live in a world of terrible injuries and I see a tremendous amount of suffering. It is something that few people get to see or want to see. That is my world.
As you can probably tell I am a bit biased against speculative thought. Thus the ideas of Origen have no interest to me. There may be a place for such talk but I think I am just going to get upset and/or upset all of you. You rightfully told me I perhaps am a bit too judgmental about these topics. For that I apologize. I am quite human and react as we all do- not very well at times
But I have found all speculation is done when one is vibrant. I work with the non-vibrant… a time when all speculation must cease. It is important for all of us to realize that. Our fates are not speculative but real. My message to the conference was my first and last philosophical statement. I think I am the wrong person for these subjects.
Good luck with these issuesThe discussion does not seem to be developing. Perhaps it is because you have three people who do not view life or the study of life in the same manner, even if we all would like to think so. All of us are trained in various ways and our so called intellects develop in different ways. In medicine I am amidst women and men with great capacities of theoretical and practical thought and we all take the same subjects though some of us spent more time on the art side of education than the science side. Still very similar once we get to medical school. Yet once in practice, once we form a group, once we have common principles of care in a similar economic structure … one would think a certain rational light would go off amidst us. One would most definitely think that…
But it does not occur as we would think. We have a term for this in medicine and it is one made of use by medical personel and administrators- getting doctors to agree on things is as impossible as herding cats… we all think differently. It is both amazing and frustrating. We talk about it, especially in this era where we are being pressured from all sides to lower costs, give excellent care, do research that is meaningful etc etc. You would think our wonderful minds would run circles around those that do not appreciate us … sadly it is not true. Despite years of education and training we remain some of the world’s most naive individuals … I think such naivite is seen in the movie Dr Shivago … how little the young Doctor understood how the ideas of a few would wreak havoc within his world… and he tacitly agreed with them emotionally at the start … ah but he never saw how such ideas could be so evil … that he never saw…
I must admit that I did not feel comfortable with the first topic of discussion of truth going straight to the answer. As I have told Shawn from the beginning that I am not sure that this will be as open as we wish it to be. Origen could write the most wonderful, the most beautiful allegorical prose/poetry explaining the gospels yet I am not moved by such and such an approach- it does not appeal to me. That is my honest answer.
But our chasm does point out one of our human frailties that makes ideas difficult to come to fruition, especially ones that will reportedly better our insight and our lives regarding this human situation. They depend on us being on the same wavelength of emotion and thought, not to mention practical experience. I think that is why there are so many philosophies of life … similar people band together and forge them … in philosophy itself … in politics … in countries … etc . Then somehow one can fool oneself that such reasoning then becomes rational only… when in truth such reasoning remains very dependent on something we refuse to admit to-we all are very emotional in every thought we ever have…Reasoning does exist but it is not as objective as we would like it to be…it is as beauty is … in the eye of the beholder…
Both Shawn and Edward see such beauty and reasoning in Origen. And I think they were hoping to persuade me along the same lines. But I am unmoved by such an approach. This may end our attempt to discuss issues of life. But from the first I have been uncomfortable with the approach of acquiring true belief in any manner. Philosophically it is futile in my opinion. My reality tells me that truth is something very hard to grasp, especially by the rich and the educated (that is an education where one haughtily thinks the truth is obtained versus classic western education in which we learned about the mind and the heart and the difficulty that the ages have with certainty)…. I am reminded of that line in the Gospel that goes something like this … it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter into the kingdom of God … that has always been a frightening line to contemplate, in my opinion…
…well perhaps this may end our discussion on this aspect. I am sorry I was not of better assistance but I must be true to my beliefs …If one is a Christian, then one is connected to the G-d of the Jews. If one believes in the G-d of the Old Testament, then one believes in Moses and that he received the Ten Commandments. If one follows these Ten Commandments,, with one’s heart, you realize that the most important lessons they teach one and all is our relationship with Our Creator as well as with each other. Most importantly have no false idols…
To think we can logically figure out life through equation is to not just know logic but to believe in logic. To think we can discover the essence of life through science is to not just know science but to believe in science.
Religious people who truly are religious are often accused of being believers in things that are superstitious etc. Yet, if we are honest, scientists, and logicians, and philosophers, as well as politicians, lawyers, doctors, engineers all believe in things too.
Much of our physical world has been explained via hypotheses. We have defined such hypotheses now as facts when, truly a hypothesis remains a hypothesis forever. Thus our scientific knowledge can never be first hand, at least in my opinion.
The step that takes hypotheses to facts is not one of first hand knowledge-it is a step of belief. Thus the scientist finds himself in the same position as the religious person. he has stepped into something because he believes in it.Now I said at the start that perhaps what I have to say here may not go over very well. And that is because i am stepping into the realm where men want to believe what they want to believe- that they can come up with the answers.
And thus certainty becomes a muddle of belief. This is what I think the real Socrates said-“I am ignorant!”
Now I am a great believer in the tools of science and logic and politics etc etc. But tools have a limit with their use. We have figured out the physical sciences to a great degree but perhaps not to the extent we think we have. If one thinks about it, in all our discoveries of the majesty of creation, does it humble us or make us haughty? Such creation is so vast and intricate and we are so hopeless to discover its true source other than to just admit our hopeless situation if we are truly honest and humble.
Now the mind is certainly not in the realm of science, in my opinion, though again we want it to be. Tell me how can it be measured?
Yes we have discovered much about the brain and how it works in many ways, yet I will tell you as a neurologist… we have an exceedingly impossible task on our hands despite advances in neurology,psychiatry, neurobiology, PET, MRI etc etc…and i am not the only neurologist who feels this way…. trust me on this…Much of our grasp of knowledge is illusory, in my opinion. What is real is life and existence, as it is, not as we perceive it only. Just today I read where they have measured that the sun is just getting hotter irregardless of what is going on here on earth. So who really is in charge?
I do not say I am right on all of this, but I hope i open up roadblocks in our minds that we just never really think about. I would recommend buying Dr Maurice Drury’s book Danger of Words … he goes through all of this quite magnificently… I think Stephen Crane was on to this also and countless others …. I know it is a hard thing to digest because all of us are trained not to think this way. But I think we are told in the Ten Commandments to believe in God and God alone … I know that tells me MY limit …. everything else is simply a tool and i must be careful not to make it into fixed beliefs….One short note
life is learning about suffering….was it not a Greek who said through suffering comes understanding….things have not changed since the days of Aeschylus
I wish it wasn’t so but in my day to day work I see it always … what matters is not that we suffer but does it give us strength and courage to truly view life honestly…….the problem is the solution!As I have told Shawn, I am not really a kindred soul to Origen or anyone. I am not a philosopher nor am I a religious thinker. I am a male but would I want to say I think like all males? I am of Irish descent but would I want to say I think as all Irish do? I am a Christian/Catholic but would I want to say I think as all Christian/Catholics do? I am an American but would I want to say I think as all Americans do? Perhaps there is both truth and falsity in such generalizations. But I do know one thing… beyond all those generalizations lies a unique life that is mine and mine alone. I am not sure anyone could really figure me out. I doubt I could do it myself!
I am a neurologist yet that word makes it sound as if I have figured out the brain. There are those who think they have. And once the brain is figured out perhaps we have the mind figured out. And voila…we have life figured out! I am just a human being, whatever that is. My struggle is the same as all humans who have ever lived. We are the created ones who may or may not marvel at their creation!
Can anyone really figure out this thing we call life? Many think we can. Yet who really knows our recipe?
So I enjoin in this discussion not to join any group of kindred spirits, nor to truly find the proper way towards true belief. But I am willing to discuss any and all topics that help people search for the holiness in life, something most people seem to pass blindly in their worldly pursuits without even a glance. I want them to be hit, perhaps even blindsided by it. Though they will shudder, it will be a shudder of great joy!There was a time that I thought that the intellect was something that gave man great hope. (Name someone in higher education who would think otherwise?) Yet in my travails through the education process I feel that something is lost when one tries to intellectualize everything into a rational system. This is true especially in our present day whereby the science of education is overwhelming its art. And that is very sad, in my view…. but systems seem to be our new way as well as our new curse. We have so easily forgotten that systems may exist only in general and only within the concaves of one’s mind. in some ways they are only imaginative inventions within our haughty minds whereby we think we have found rational and perhaps super-rational truth. Yet while we marvel over our invention something important is lost.What is usually lost is one’s ability to feel for the plight of an individual as well as the individual his or herself….and only in the individual does one face reality…everything else is imaginative idea… still we try through centuries of philosophies, psychologies to perfect our world when in fact it may not be perfectable…and if it is, it is not due to our ignorant natures…yet how we try…many of us say and perhaps Origen is one of them….they say something like this….
“If only there was a system perfected by humans that would enable all humans to rationally and peacably co-exist. One that allowed for great scientific inventions to serve us, great monetary systems to enrich us, great intellectual pursuits to occupy us, and great pursuits of pleasure that will satisfy us….”Yet I am reminded of the fall of Adam and Eve and the warning about reaching for things that are not in our sphere…
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ” Genesis 2:16-17
Tell me if I err here…. what is the intellect other than immaterial representations that can be of logic as well as things not of logic. Many definitions, equations, systems can easily be shown to hold logic but other definitions and systems are not of logic but of something else. Socrates told us in Euthyphro that men do not argue over what is easily measured but what man argues over is what is good, what is just, what is fine and visa versa. No different in our present era than 2500 years ago.
The problem with any system of logic is it only takes you so far. It can never touch what is good, what is fine, or what is just. Such things are only in the Province of the Almighty, if we are lucky…That we try to make such systems through our own reasoning skills is quite scary as well as quite dangerous. So many humans have good intentions yet get lost in things they can NEVER truly understand.
Finally no matter what one reads of history, be it about this man Origen, or about George Washington, or Alexander the Great, one can never really know how such a man was or what obstacles he faced or what his goodness truly was or perhaps still is….
I have enough trouble with the present and the problems we currently face to waste any time on how an individual from the past will somehow be resurrected to assure our future. You are going to have a hard time showing me that you have found wisdom’s secret to man’s earthly as well as divine success…I truly wish we could soar above our limits. Each day brings new ideas and thoughts to all of us while each day’s measure brings us closer to our end. The sun draws from me the moisture of life yet still I am attracted to it. I want to defy the gravity that holds me earthbound. I wish for happiness for all humans yet how can such a thing be done when death lurks in the horizon…
I certainly understand why we wish to somehow escape within the ideas of our imaginations. But we remain mortal creatures, trapped within the moment of life,remembering the past, dreaming of a better future, yet always seeing so many of our ideas become something we never could imagine….
Again I do not know much about Origen but from what I found on the internet, he seemed to be a good gentle soul, a good priest who preached and lectured, perhaps never knowing what he said, quite naively, would be held against him three centuries later…
But that is what we do best, in this world- we destroy the past to make a better future, always thinking we somehow have the ability to UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING!This is a poem by Stephen Crane called The Wayfarer
The Wayfarer
Perceiving the path to truth,
Was struck with astonishment.
It was thickly grown with weeds.
“Ha!” he said
“I see that none has passed here
In a long time.”
Later he saw that each weed
Was a singular knife.
“Well,” he mumbled at last,
“Doubtless there are other roads…”I read Edward’s introduction … one worry I have is that people have a tendency to believe what they want to and then turn everything back into that line of thinking. Please let everyone know I am not a disciple of any philosopher in that most of them are dreamers and live their lives in the dreams of goodness but fail to pay attention to reality….with terrible consequences…
I am not a kindred spirit of Origen or anyone nor will I ever be. I am simply myself … struggling in a world that refuses to face reality….. Instead I appreciate people who struggle for life…..cabbies, janitors, shoeshiners etc…. these are my philosophers, the philosophers who live in reality….. My news for Edward and for the Bishop may not be what they want to hear. It may be nothing that any of us wants to hear. I always remember that Jesus says that you will know who speaks the truth by the fruit they make. One difficulty with recreating men from the past and to save their doctrine is … you can just never really know what they meant. Much of philosophy is easily transformed by people who see things a bit different than how the philosopher meant it to be.
Martin Heiderger to me was a very confused man. He was associated with the Nazis at one point. Perhaps there are people that can overlook that. That to me is very damning and it makes me very disinterested in studying him. Again the message is he may have been looking for a special meaning about life and was used by others very devious. Evil is a boundless thing and it is often comes about despite the best intentions…… the one question that Christianity must face is how they have treated the Jewish race … and what was done in the Holocaust was not due to simply one man, Hitler….the whole world ws complicit in that unspeakable tragedy…he just used people’s inclinations towards a worldly grandeur to his advantage … I have been haunted by the films of the camps since high school … it was at that point that I wondered just how good is this human race…really
I cannot do this, if my thoughts get turned back towards any two philosophers etc or to any movement per say…in fact a part of me is so anti-philosophy simply because it speculates in places it may have no business venturing into …. I cannot really search for true belief because that is only learned via acts of kindness….not with intellectual discussions……. I said in my intro that I made that restraint in a way to help keep pts safe…little did I know how little I know about human nature… I am willing to perhaps help with some thoughts but I am not sure it will be appreciated …I am not looking for heroes of thought…I want people to search for truth through kindness but that is a personal decision one has to make on their own…once that is done then and only then can one think in a manner that can see any semblance of what is true…. I remember reading Crime and Punishment and remember the character Marmalov, I think…..he had sank to the lowest of the low yet still retained a hope for dignity despite his wife’s disgust with him, his daughter’s prostitution….he said to the young man in the book …. where does a man go when he has no other place to go …. how we refuse to face such a task which brings one away from all education, beyond all philosophy, beyond all the falsity of politics and science and causes…..it brings you face to face with your existence and that you will have to be accountable to God for all your good and all your evil……that is where humility exists as well as really where one’s duty originates my duty is to God and God alone!I really do not want to be associated with any new way of thinking, or with coming up with new ways to view old philosophies other than knowing I have great sympathy towards all of us confused humans….and in amending our ways to see Him more clearly
oh no just perhaps that everyone else had … no I want to do this but thought perhaps I had said too much about myself …
and had not heard anything lately … sort of going to a party and no one showed up but then I suspect it was because I came a few weeks earlyperhaps it is that I am the one who does not know everyone and I posted first … and thought I had scared everyone away … simply self doubt :):)
…..and I have developed a weird case of hip pain whereby I am having a hard time even walking the past few days/// it is always bad when the doctor looks worse than the pt… it is really painful and on top of that I think I have the flu … my wife laughs at me … every time I get pain or get sick my mind always wanders to serious ailments … she laughs at me … but tonite I feel as bad as I ever have … I am not a good pt
I look forward to the dialog and again if what i said is too much just erase it ….it is good that you know a bit about me … but the other gentleman may wonder … who the heck did you fid Shawn ??
oh well…hopefully I’ll feel better in the next few days
