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Dear Shawn,
I also do not know why we are connected… but it happens now. Once you said something about be in the present, not in the past or in the future, remember? For me this is enough.
These days I was thinking about friends. It is so difficult to find real friends. I am saying it because I had a deception with a friend of mine (another friend, not Dani). I thought we could be real friends. We were colleagues, then we became friends, and now she works with me at my office with massage and eutony. And it is all. Perhaps I can help her more with my work.
I want to ask you one thing about Origenes: What did he say about having many lives? I am asking this because he was Christian and Christianity does not accept other life, or many lives. And you what do you think about this?
Have a good day!
Love Gabriela
Dear Gabriela,
Yes, I do remember. It is a battle for me everyday to concentrate on the present, but it is the most important time. When our life is over, we do not want to regret having wasted it on dreaming!Origenes taught that we are fallen angels who have been given a path of restoration back to our original divinity. This path is a gradual one in which our souls start the journey at the appropriate level within creation. Those who had accumulated so much guilt in helping to bring about the Fall have started their restoration in the mineral level, if they have chosen to return to Jesus yet.
Yes this restoration is such a slow process that people are not willing to accept that fact that their soul spent millions of years banned inside a stone before they were able to learn a little bit about patience. Or that there are enough fallen souls to inhabit every insect, every blade of grass, every animal and every human on earth and still leave room for countless more who have not even started their path of restoration. But “some things are true whether you believe in them or not.”
With the Christianity that Origenes taught, there was no way for slavery to be successful. There was no way for men to oppress women. There was no way for the ‘holy roman empire’ to survive! These things are only possible when people value their lives so much, so that they will do anything to stay alive, even if it means living a life that ignores all teachings of Jesus and the Prophets. It is greed and power that destroyed the Christian belief in reincarnation.
This is all in the footnotes of my paper, but I am attaching another paper that I wrote a while ago on reincarnation. It gives some biblical references to reincarnation and should help to understand the infinite Love of God better. I have roughly estimated when the Fall occurred and came up with something like 305 billion years ago, with another 13 billion years left until Lucifer is restored to Heaven. “The first shall be last…” These are just rough numbers, but the give you an idea of God’s infinite patience and our long journey away from Him and now back to Him.
The first souls who were able to re-enter Heaven did so only 2000 years ago after Jesus reopened the gates of Heaven that have been closed for 305 billion years.
The ‘holy roman empire’ also brought into a materialistic sense Jesus’ forgiveness of sin. This allowed the priests to forgive all the wrongdoings done for the empire. The sin that Jesus forgave was our sin against Him 305 billion years ago, not the ones that we make everyday. These He told us must be “repaid to the last farthing.” If people knew that the sins in this life must be repaid in the life hereafter and in the next lives on earth, then they would live quite differently than they currently do.
This is why Origenes’ teachings were destroyed by the roman empire. It would have lost its power. I hope this helps you in some way. I feel that I can tell you the full extent of what I believe. I cannot do this with many people and therefore do not have many true friends either. But maybe were sent here to have many friends, but rather to be provocative enough to get people to start thinking about these topics for themselves and start breaking down the many false misconceptions that exist in this world.
Love Shawn
Dear Shawn,
Thanks for your beautiful words and the article you sent attached. Now I can understand your point of view and I agree with you.
There is only one thing I couldn’t understand. You always talk about angels… It is difficult for me to think about angels. I can understand a hierarchy on heaven, and even in earth, but why give them the name “angel”? Did Origenes talk about angels as you do?
Please, could you send me a Bibliography on Origenes? On the 25th July I will go to the Monastery and I would like to ask them if they can make copies of some Origenes’ books. Father Bernardo appreciate Origenes and they have many Origenes’ books there.
First we are here to “change” ourselves, and then others, and we can do both at the same time. As you I do provoke people around me.
It would be a pleasure to share your thoughts and beliefs. I do have much to learn with you and we have so many ideas to share… I am really happy we are doing this.
Love Gabriela
Dear Shawn,
I just want to thanks your confidence explaining me your belief and I hope be worthy of it.
I have to go now, but I couldn’t do this without sending you some words. Tomorrow I’ll write more.
Have a good night! And a good day tomorrow!
Love Gabriela
Dear Gabriela,
It is an honor me to be able explain to you my belief. It is a belief held by very few people in the world and therefore often comes across as foreign. But when we dig down behind the meanings of Socrates, Jesus and Origenes we find the pearls that I am giving to you. People with a highly materialistic orientation to life cannot understand or appreciate these pearls. Jesus warned us not to through to through the pearls to the swine, not just because they cannot understand it, but because they can use pieces of the Truth to support their lies. I guess what I am trying to say is that we must be reserved enough to only give the pearls to those who are looking for them with a pure heart.The physical world is just a shadow of the Spiritual World, but there is much confusion about the words that people have used to explain it and its inhabitants. The second commandment says: “Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth”
This commandment is the second one and the most descriptive of the ten. It is important to actually understand what it is saying. It breaks the Spiritual World into three categories: 1) The Heaven above, 2) the earth below and 3) the waters beneath the earth. This is where Origenes’ allegorical method was so important; to actually understand what these three places are. He placed great emphasis on the symbolic nature of names, numbers places and directions. I will attempt to put into words what is meant by these three places.
1) The Heaven above. This is where all the souls live who are at one with God. I call these beings of light Angels. We come across other words in the Bible such as Seraphim and Cherubim, but we realize that our imagination and our vocabulary are not big enough to describe all the Spiritual Beings living at one with God. When I say Angel, I mean such a being, with his/her unique personality and spiritual body.
2) the earth below. I take this to mean the spiritual place between Heaven and Hell. This is the spiritual place that is close to earth and from which we are born into this world. It is where all the souls reside who are on their path of restoration. Angels work here teaching and training the fallen souls; preparing them for a new life and helping them to learn from the past one.
3) the waters beneath the earth. We know Poseidon (Neptune) as the king of the bitter sea; referring to Lucifer, the king these waters below the earth: Hell. This is where Jesus went after He died to conquer Lucifer and to free all of us from Lucifer’s grasp who were being held against our will.
Greek mythology is rich with stories about the gods. But one has to read closely in order to see from which of these three places each god comes from. So in reading Homer or Plato you can question yourself: “Is the author talking about a human, a fallen soul in Hell, a fallen soul on its way back to Heaven, or an Angel of God?”
I hope that help you to see the problems of discussing the Spiritual World, and it is interesting to imagine why God does not want us to make any image of anything in any of these three paces.
As far as a bibliography on Origenes goes, I can give you a good link to many books. http://www.earlychurch.org.uk/origen.html What I enjoy the most are his commentaries on John. You must remember that most of his remaining books were ‘adjusted’ to meet with the dogma of the church of the 5th and 6th century, so anything that is closest to his hand is the best. The fragments of books 11 through 32 of his commentary on John a good example of his thought process. You may also consider reading Henri Crouzel’s book on Origenes. It was originally written in French, I have the English translation. He is seen as pro Origenes, but not as much as me. Of course the best book on Origenes is from Robert Strauli, but
unfortunately this is only in German at the moment.I wish you God’s strength on your path!
Love ShawnDear Gabriela,
I have taken the liberty of placing our dialog on my forum website at http://forum.origenes2000.orgOnly you and I have access to it now, but at some point in the future maybe someone might want to read what we are talking about. I will not let anyone look at our conversation and would ask your permission if we found someone who was also ready to hear our words.
You can post your replies to my comments right on the website and then I will get an email that you have added to the dialog. I hope this is okay with you, I sure helps me to be able to look back over what we have said in the past. Please have a look and let me know.
Love ShawnDear Shawn,
When I wrote you yesterday I was also thinking about our conversation, but in another way. I thought how rich is a conversation between two friends as we were doing here. This was the way knowledge was transmitted in early antiquity, from person to another. I was happy we could maintain this kind of conversation. In my opinion real knowledge can be transmitted only in this way and this is knowledge’s oral transmission.
I only feel free to say what goes on my mind because one day I could see your eyes shinning, your tears dropping on your face… His presence in you. This is the way I want to communicate with you. I don’t want to be worried if someone will read what I am writing, especially because I do many mistakes and I feel ashamed of that. If one day we think it would be good to show what we have talked we will do it. But we may be sure that our words will help someone in his/her way.
I am writing here because it is difficult for me to accept innovation. I usually need time and then I do. Perhaps next time I will write on the site… Can you wait for me? Ah! Is it possible there to communicate at the same time as a Chat?
I have many things to share with you… I am happy because since yesterday evening I had two rich experiences, deep in quality. Later I will tell you…
Please, let me know what you want me to do. I am a little bit lost…
Love Gabriela
Dear Shawn,
I was really surprised with your call. I had no words to say how happy I was hearing your voice.
You are very sensitive and you could catch my feelings behind my words. And this makes me cry once more. Thanks for making me cry happy tears.
Love Gabriela
Dear Shawn,
I have this same connection with another Shawn, John, João. João was not my husband. My husband was also João, but I first met this João (friend) even before my husband. We were always friends, even if we do not see each other or talk frequently. He is always near me.
Once after we both got separated from our wife/husband we tried, for more than one year, to have an affair. It was nice, we loved each other as always and we discovered that we were more than woman and man, we were like sister/brother. We could not live as wife/husband, so we decided to separate. Today he is my chief at the University where I teach, he is the director of the University, and I know if he had not asked me to teach there I would not discover Plotinus, and would not experience this new aspect of my life, and you too. I thank him every time we are together, he is my brother in heart. This is enough!
I do not expect any thing from you and that’s why I was so happy this afternoon. Knowing you exist is fantastic and is enough! I was happy to hear your voice because our voices are the blow of our Soul. And again I could hear your soul not only in my ears, but in my Soul.
It is all the same if we talk here or on the website since we can talk from our Souls. Please, continue telling me your beliefs, your feelings, whatever your heart whisper.
Love Gabriela
Dear Gabriela,
I have this same connection with two other people in this world, and none of them are my wife. One is my daughter, and I feel so happy every day to know that we are soul-mates. The other is Teresa, who makes me cry for the entire time that I am with her. She sees right into my soul and I am completely naked in front of her. She keeps telling that we are only human and that we will never live up to the expectations of the Angels. They do not know how hard it is to be a human, but Jesus knows how hard it is. That is why we can pray to Him. He has been here and He knows how hard it is.
God has given us a great present; that we are able to KNOW each other is fantastic!
Love ShawnDear Gabriela,
Yes, I too cried for most of the time that I was in church today. I guess I was both happy that Gary, the priest, used my topic of prayer in his sermon. But also it was because I was sad that I am not the best tool for the spiritual world. I do not always listen to them and I let my will get in the way of His Will.We have started out dialog this weekend and I am happy with the people involved; we are all very different! This helps the reader to be able see many sides, but to choose his own path. I hope that it will workout the way that He wants it to.
Have a wonderful Sunday.
Love ShawnPs. Thank you for sharing your relationship. Suzanne was the only women that I knew with whom I did not have a physical sexual relationship with. From the beginning we were friends, and we still are. Most people do not understand how I can get along with her gone for 2 months, but you can understand. I am connected with my wife at the heart, and that is something rare.
Dear Shawn,
I can see that your are doing what you should do. It is difficult to wait because while we are waiting to do something we think, and our thoughts go faster then action. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. This is the way things happen. I think this dialog is the beginning of something you should do. Our work, the work we are intended to do is not big as we think or expect to be and when we realize this we can recognize our real size. What we have to do is enough for Him even if we feel we are doing nothing.
When I feel small I become happy even if I am sad. I am worried when I feel every thing is fine and I am doing my best. This is the way to be proud of ourselves and this is really dangerous.
I think I could understand what you said about Suzanne, especially in the end, but I couldn’t understand what you mean when you said “Suzanne was the only women that I knew with whom I did not have a physical sexual relationship with. From the beginning we were friends, and we still are.” I am asking this because I imagine what you are trying to say, but I am not sure about it. You don’t need to explain me if you do not want to. Perhaps we can talk more about this, I am thinking about relations in general and I would like to know what Origenes says about this.
Love Gabriela
Dear Gabriela,
I just wanted to explain my comment about Suzanne. I told you that something happened to me when I was young. I am not sure what it was, but it was not good. It turned me from my path at an early age. My childhood was not the nicest and I grew up in a vulgar environment. All of my relationships with women were very physical and had nothing to do with friendship. After my grandmother died, my life changed for the better. When I met Suzanne, I did not want to repeat my mistakes of the past and was starting to relearn my reason for being here.I was able to start a relationship with Suzanne that was based on friendship alone. I am happy to have such a relationship.
I will have to look closer into the teachings of Origenes, but he lived a life of very modestly. It is said that he did not have any interest in women in a sexual sense. Socrates did not either. They loved women (and men) for their minds and for who they are; the spirit that fills them.
Suzanne was the first woman that I was able to see as my equal and then my superior. She has provided balance in my life and I am very grateful of what she is able to do for me.
I hope I make some of sense for you. It is hard to explain, but from where I cam from in the earlier part of my life, I was happy to be able to finally have a normal, equal relationship with a woman.
Love Shawn
Dear Shawn,
I thought you would not answer my question and you gave me more than an answer. I do not know the way I understand you, but believe, I can do it. I do not know what happened when you were a child but I am happy you could overcome it, and you are where you are because you could do it. This shows you were never alone. I don’t know why I am always trying transmit you good words, good feelings… that’s what come from my heart.
We all have the chance to learn from our past, and you did it. I am happy you can live with Suzanne as you live. Now I prefer living alone and this is a choice.
As I told you I am thinking about women/men relationship in a totally different way now. That’s why I asked about Origenes and your answer makes me sure that we are talking the same. As you said Origenes and Socrates did not have any interest in women in a sexual way. I loved knowing this because if you remember I am not only trying to accumulate knowledge but to live the way of life they lived. I don’t want only to know what they knew, for me this is not enough. And you gave me a clue. Thank you very much. This is the way of life I am trying to live but people could not understand me. Have you ever read Gregory of Nissa? I have learnt a lot with him on this. And last time I went to the Monastery I talked a lot with Father Bernardo on this issue and he also understands me and incentive on this way.
I am really happy we can understand each other. Perhaps one day I will have words to tell more. Last Saturday I talked about this with Sister Eliana and she said me words I can not repeat yet. I have to have them within myself, in my heart, later I will find the words to share it with you. I could not do it even in Portuguese.
I am so happy you are near me!!!!
Love Gabriela
Dear Gabriela,
People often get confused when they look at certain figures, like Paul, and make generalized conclusions. Paul was personally visited by Jesus and taught by Him in the desert for three years. Paul was personally given a very important job to do for mankind. Paul trying to spread the Good News to as many as he could, and I can imagine that he might have become a little too driven.The church and the monks have patterned their behavior after Paul, and used his stance towards marriage as the rule, instead of the exceptional case that it was. Being a good husband/wife/ and father/mother is the most important task that the majority of mankind has to do. Very few have risen to the level of a Paul, Socrates, or Origen; who can truly say that their mission in life is not just for a small group of people (like their family members), but for everyone in the world. Had they had their soul-mates at their side, I am sure that their works would not have been hurt at all.
Do not give up hope on love. It still has much to teach us and can widen our perspective so much!
Love Shawn
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